A big hat-tip to Consumerist.com for linking to my Chuck E. Cheese article!
The point in that article that got their attention was how it's possible to get tokens at a discount on eBay. They even linked to a few current auctions for arcade tokens.
The first comment on that post set the tone for the entire discussion thus far:
Since when did The Consumerist start advocating theft?
I'm many things, but “thief” is not one of them.
Now, if the tokens were not genuine tokens, but instead had the same size and weight as real Chuck E. Cheese tokens, then I would not use them. That is theft. Also, if I knew that the tokens were obtained through theft (like an employee on his/her last day walks out the back door with a pailful) then I would not use them, either, though I wouldn't know how I could find this out.
But if I buy 1,000 genuine Chuck E. Cheese tokens from someone for $100 and use them at Chuck E. Cheese, I don't consider that theft. I'll explain. Chuck E. Cheese's locations are almost all corporately owned and operated, so if someone got 1,000 tokens (legitimately) then Chuck E. Cheese got paid for them. If they're not used, then the person getting the 1,000 tokens didn't get anything for his/her $250 (they're 4/$1 at the locations). If, instead, that person sells the tokens to an exonumia dealer for, say, $50, and that dealer sells them to me for $100, and I use the tokens at my favorite Chuck E. Cheese location, then Chuck E. Cheese still has the $250 it got from the original purchase, even if it does not get any money from me. The tokens can be used at most once each time they're transferred from CEC to a consumer. Where it travels in between the time it's purchased and the time it's used shouldn't matter.
Unless the tokens are made explicitly non-transferrable, then this just seems to be smart buying for folks who use eBay to get genuine CEC tokens. To me, it's no different than buying a $200 Amazon gift certificate for $180, or a $50 Wal-Mart gift card for $45. The companies still got their money from the original purchaser.
Now, I admit that I can't see the manager of a particular CEC being at all happy with me (or anyone else) coming in with tokens that weren't bought there. That particular store does not get any revenue from me for those tokens, but I use the machines and they have to maintain them. As I've suggested before, CEC corporate doesn't suffer any loss because they were paid for the tokens, but the manager's numbers are affected.
To combat this, the manager could instruct his/her employees to be vigilant about people bringing in tokens from the outside, much in the same way movie theaters don't let people come in with their own food. That would solve the token problem, but it also is a questionable PR move, since there's the expectation, explicit or otherwise, that CEC tokens can be used at any CEC location.
But just as a bookstore like Borders is tolerant of people sitting in their store for hours reading their books because some of the patrons buy drinks there, CEC probably realizes that people can get genuine tokens elsewhere and counts on a number of them buying food and drinks. Plus, those tokens might not be free to that location; the tokens that come in from the outside are tokens that that location doesn't have to buy itself. Now, if I go in there and start selling tokens to everyone I can for 6/$1, yeah, they're going to kick me out forever. That's rubbing it in their face.
What do you think?
I were rather aghast when I visited USA last year and found out you couldn't bring your own "food" to movie theaters.
I'm quite sure there would be both a public outcry and a rather big drop in customers if you had to buy your snacks and soft drinks from the expensive snack bars in the theaters here in Sweden.
Speaking of "food", I also found it hilarious that a lot of candy packages featured the exclamation: "A fat-free food!". 🙂
Mattias, American movies are worth the price of popcorn and soda. . .oh, wait. . .nevermind.
Interesting post, MBH. I tend you agree with you, but I'm thinking about it. . .
Is it unethical to ever pay more than face value for somthing?
Isn't capitalism based on "buy low, sell high"?
If I acquire tokens by legal means, am I obligated to sell them for face value or do I have to just return them to the store if I can't get my price?
From an accounting standpoint, CEC doesn't really "earn" revenue until someone uses the token. They sell you the right to "lease" one of their machines for a small amount of time with each token. Until you make good on that lease they haven't really done anything to earn the revenue from the token. So, when you purchase the token it's really pre-paid revenue they have.
So, really, you were just sub-leasing the machine from someone else since they pre-paid and weren't going to be able to make good on the use.
I can't see a problem with it. Sometimes other people are weird.
I certainly don't think it's illegal, potentially against policy, but I don't know what policies are. I do think though just because you can do it, doesn't make it ethical. I mean like all those people who were returning TVs at Costco because newer models were available at cheaper prices. Was ok with the old policy, but certainly wasn't ethical in my opinion.
As the question relates to morality, this is bogus. Chuck E. Cheese is a casino for children. Most of their games are token-sucking games of chance. Skeeball may be a game of skill, but one has to be very good to get enough tickets cranked out to make it worth it when one considers the actual value of the prizes at the ticket-redemption counter. I took the children of a poor friend to Chuck E. Cheese for her son's birthday at the mother's request. Her son within minutes burned through several dollars' worth of tokens! She could have used that money!
There's nothing unethical about this, unless you sign some kind of agreement or CEC has a clearly visible policy that you can't resell your tickets (which I've nevere seen). Yes one manager's store loses out while another's gains, but this happens all the time. If that were the sole basis for whether it's ethical, then you shouldn't return clothes bought at one JCPenney to another JCPenney because it will hurt the second JCPenney's numbers!
This is a way of for prospective customers to get tokens at a discount, for others not to have to throw money down the drain, and CEC benefits in the end because they'll still get more traffic to their locations and sell pizza, soda, etc. at a huge markup.
So how are these sellers on ebay collecting large quantities of tokens? Are they most likely collecting them by legal means or illegal means? I don't have a problem with buying them at a discount, as long as you can reasonably verify that you are not purchasing illegal (stolen) goods.
Interesting way of thinking about it Curtis, but my instinct is that you are wrong. I feel that the reason that tokens exist is to decouple the act of using the machine from money. That way, you can give out bonus tokens if the person converts a lot of money.
In reality, I think that CEC or other arcades would have no problem with you converting money into tokens without ever using them. The token itself does not cost 25 cents to replace, the manager still gets good sales numbers, and the machines receive no wear-and-tear.
I can't work up a lot of sympathy for Chuck E. Cheese. As anyone who has ever been sucked into staging a kid's birthday party there knows, that outfit manipulates children to fleece parents of astonishing amounts of money. And the pizza is just vile.
While of course we should not purchase or use stolen tokens, if the E-bay tokens are not counterfeit and you have no reason to believe they're hot, by all means buy them at the discount.
Better yet: find someplace else to entertain the little ones. For what you shell out for one kiddie birthday party at CEC, you could buy the kids a Wii and have enough left to treat them to a pizza with real cheese on it.
Last night, we got 110 tokens for $10. I'm sure I could have sold them for a profit, but they gave them to us in the form of a credit card – that can only be used at their store. Problem solved.
Maybe these sellers are running an operation like http://www.giftcardbuyback.com/ which resells gift cards. Offer to buy unused tokens for 10 cents each, sell them for 15 cents each.
I don't think it's unethical at all, and it's entirely unreasonable to expect people to independently verify the legitimacy of every good they purchase. Keeping in mind the activities of organized crime in the past century, not to mention dubious labor practices in some countries, does anybody go through the trouble of verifying every normal good they purchase? Did those shoes come from a child labor camp? Does that flashlight use copper that was stolen in bulk by the Russian mob and resold to the factory? Probably not… we rely on organizations like the FBI, various watchdog groups, etc to check those things for us.
I think you're being intentionally naive in assuming the tokens aren't stolen. Otherwise how would you end up with 1000 tokens? You bought 5000 and just couldn't use them all? I put the likelihood that these are stolen by employees in the high 90s. Didn't anyone ever tell you that if it's too good to be true it probably is? Now, as long as the tokens were legitimately acquired then there is no moral ambiguity at all. Go ahead and buy them because you aren't depriving Chuck E. Cheese of anything.
When I was in grade school (90's), I would get 100 "free tokens" per quarter for my report card. Someone with a bunch of kids that get good grades could easily acquire a lot of tokens if the kids don't use them. I'm sure there are plenty of other promotions where you get free or cheap tokens and could try to sell them for a profit.
Just saying.. that chance of them being stolen is probably not "high 90's" and I wouldn't assume they were illegally obtained.
The last time I took my children to chuck e cheese (gasp) I used a coupon that netted me 100 tokens for $10, the coupon has expired but i found it on fatwallet.
I wouldnt doubt that some of the auctions on ebay are by minimum wage employees who have found a way to pilfer large quantities of tokens.